Musenyeri Nzakamwita w’imyaka 82, ari mu kiruhuko cy’izabukuru kuva mu 2022, nyuma y'imyaka 27 yari amaze ari Umushumba wa Diyosezi ya Byumba yasanze igizwe na Paruwasi 13 ariko kuri ubu ikaba ifite Paruwasi 21.

Mu kiganiro gishya cya IGIHE cyitwa Ingingo Nkuru, Musenyeri Nzakamwita yagarutse ku buryo urwango rwabibwe mu bantu bikagera no muri Kiliziya, ibyaberaga muri za séminaire aho abitegura kuba Abapadiri nabo barangwaga n’amacakubiri.

Ubuhamya bwe, uruhare rwa Kiliziya, Abapadiri baranzwe n’amoko na byo yabigarutseho.

IGIHE: Umaze imyaka ine mu kiruhuko kuko wasezeye mu 2018 ubyemererwa mu 2022. Ubuzima bwifashe gute?

Musenyeri Nzakamwita: Mu by’ukuri mu kiruhuko umuntu aba adafite ibyo ashinzwe ariko agikomeza gufasha, mu mirimo ya gisaseridoti ndigisha, nkoresha umwiherero, abantumiye iyo bagize ubukwe, iyo bagize ibyago bagapfusha umuntu ndabatabara, ariko mu by’ukuri ndakomeza nkakora umurimo wa gisaseridoti, n’uwakepiskopi ariko nta mirimo nshinzwe ku buryo bwihariye.

Hanyuma muri iyi myaka umaze mu kiruhuko, wahisemo gutura ku Rwesero hafi y’amazi. Ni ukubera iki?

Ni heza kandi ndahazi, ni ho nize kuva mu 1958 kugeza mu 1963, ni bwo nahavuye nkomereza i Kabgayi, mu 1965 nimukira mu Nyakibanda marayo imyaka itandatu.

Mu 1971 ni bwo nahawe Ubupadiri, hanyuma noneho ntangira imirimo ya Gisaseridoti, natangiriye mu Ruhengeri kuri cathédrale, mu 1975 banyohereza muri Janja nka Padiri mukuru naho narahatinze, nahavuye mu 1986 banzana hano ku Rwesero nk’umurezi ndetse mu 1987 bangira n’Umuyobozi kuko umuyobozi wacu twari dufite Nsengiyumva Thaddée bari bamugize Umwepiskopi wa Kabgayi, aba ari njye umusimbura.

Kugera mu 1989 ni bwo banyohereje kwihugura njya ku mashuri mu Bubiligi marayo imyaka ibiri. Mvuyeyo mu 1991, banjyana mu Iseminari Nkuru ya Rutongo. Nahavuye mu 1996 bangira Umwepiskopi wa Byumba.

Uburezi bwa Kiliziya Gatolika by’umwihariko mu Iseminari ugereranyije n’igihe cya mbere, ubona buhagaze bute?

Uburezi bw’Iseminari bwose ni bumwe, bategura abana kuzaba Abasaseridoti bakabafasha, cyokora biga amashuri nk’abandi banyeshuri.

Ikigero cy’abantu bava mu Iseminari baba Abasaseridoti n’abavamo bakomeza ubuzima busanzwe kingana gute?

Abahitamo kuzaba Abasaseridoti ni bo bake, abenshi bakomeza mu yindi mirimo inyuranye.

Ni uko baba batacengewe n’umuhamagaro?

Ni bo bihitiramo, uko bahitamo ni bo babizi, ariko tuba tubizi ko bose batazaba Abasaseridoti, abahisemo kuzaba abasaseridoti ni bo tujyana mu Iseminari nkuru.

Byaba bivuze ko muri iki gihe umubare w’abashaka kujya mu nzira y’iyobokamana ugenda ugabanuka

Yego uragabanuka cyane, ibyo abantu bahitamo bituma bahitamo ubundi buzima, ariko ni ibisanzwe turabyubahiriza, icyiza ni uko n’abahisemo n’ubundi buzima baba barahakuye uburere bwiza, bwa gikirisitu, ntitube twararuhiye ubusa.

Ntabwo mutekereza ko dushobora kuzagera mu gihe nk’icy’ibindi bihugu bifite umubare muto w’abapadiri?

Mu Rwanda turacyafite imihamagaro myinshi, ntabwo turagera igihe twumva ko guhitamo kuba padiri byavuyeho kubera ko n’abakritsu bakiriho.

Reka tugaruke inyuma gato mu myaka yabanje mbere gato ya Jenoside, mwari muhari, mwakoraga umurimo w’Imana, icyo gihe wari Padiri, kugira ngo nk’abakristu, sosiyete nyarwanda, bisange aho urukundo, kiliziya n’andi madini yigisha rwasimbuwe n’urwango, ibyo bintu, iyo twabigezeho dute?

Mbere na mbere ni ukumenya ko muri iyi Isi dutuye no mu buzima bwacu turwana intambara; intambara yo gutsinda ikibi no kwimika icyiza, intambara yo gutsinda urwango no kwimika urukundo, iyo ntambara rero ni iya bose.

Hari rero n’igihe cyabaye mu Rwanda aho ubuyobozi bwa Leta hajemo icyo cyago cyo guteranya Abanyarwanda, bamwe bakanga abandi ndetse bikageza n’abo biyemeza kugira n’abo bica bakabamaraho, Abatutsi, ibyo ni ibintu byabayeho kandi byatubabaje twese kandi na n’ubu bikidufiteho ingaruka.

Ntabwo ari ubukirisitu bwabizanye, ni ubuyobozi bwahisemo guteranya Abanyarwanda kubera ibintu bya politiki byari bigezweho.

Hanyuma icyo gihe nka Kiliziya mwe mwari mu kazi, mwigishaga mute, kubasha kwigisha umuntu urukundo, yasohoka agahura n’umunyapolitiki umubwira ibindi?

Kiliziya Gatolika ni byo ishinzwe, kwigisha abantu gukundana ni na wo murage twasigiwe na Yezu ubwe. Ni byo rero twigisha.

Aho rero icyo kibazo kivukiye mu Rwanda cy’uko Abanyarwanda batojwe n’ubuyobozi bwari buhari kwangana, twe twarushijeho ahubwo kumurikira abaturage, kumurikira abakirisitu ngo be gutwarwa n’izo nzangano, ahubwo barusheho guhitamo icyiza, barusheho kubana neza n’abandi.

Ariko rero abantu bageze aho baratsindwa cyane cyane ko n’ubuyobozi bwari bubirimo bubifitemo uruhare, abantu benshi baratsinzwe bigeza n’aho nyine haza Jenoside yo gutsemba ubwoko bw’Abatutsi kugira ngo hasigare ubwoko bumwe ari bwo bwihariye ubutegetsi ndetse bwihariye n’ubuzima mu Rwanda.

Hanyuma ndibaza icyo gihe, uravuze uti ‘twe nk’abihaye Imana twarushijeho kwigisha abantu nubwo twarushijwe imbaraga n’ibindi’, umuntu yakwibaza noneho nk’abapadiri bijanditse muri Jenoside!

Abapadiri kimwe n’abandi na bo hari harimo Abahutu, harimo n’Abatutsi kandi icyo kintu cyo kwangana na bo cyabageragaho. Hari abatsinzwe binjira muri izo nzangano ndetse batatira n’igihango cy’idini.

Gutsindwa baratsinzwe ariko hari n’abataratsinzwe barwanye intambara, ni na byo byatumye u Rwanda rutazima rwose ngo icyemezo ubuyobozi bwari bwafashe ngo kigerweho 100% ni uko hari ababirwanyije ari muri bo no mirimo bari bashinzwe, abasaseridoti, abihaye Imana abakirisitu hari ababirwanyije rwose ndetse gitwari.

Mu gihe wari i Janja, ibintu by’ingengabitekerezo byari biri gututumba mu bantu. Ni ibiki wiboneye n’amaso?

Ni uko ikirere cyari kimeze rwose, uwo muco w’abantu kwangana ndetse no kwicana wari uriho, twarwanaga n’abantu rimwe na rimwe hakabaho agahenge, ubundi bikagaragara ku mugaragaro abantu bakirukanwa mu mashuri, bakirukanwa mu mirimo, bakicwa.

Hari igihe hazagamo agahenge ubundi ugasanga ari intambara duhora turwana na yo buri kanya ariko rero kuva 1990 Inkotanyi zinjira mu Rwanda zitangiye intambara kugera mu 1994, ho rwose nyine byari rurangiza.

Ni ibihe bihe uhora wibuka bitazakuva mu mutwe, buri munsi uhora wibuka by’icyo gihe?

Mu 1973, igihe Habyarimana afashe ubutegetsi akavanaho Kayibanda, wari umwaka ukomeye, aho abantu bicwaga, birukanwaga mu kazi, hanyuma aho Habyarimana afatiye ubutegetsi, birahosha abantu bagakora ariko rero hakabaho uwo mwuka, abana b’Abatutsi ntabwo bari bafite uburenganzira bwo kwiga nk’Abahutu, icyo kintu cyari kiriho ariko rwose uwo mwaka wa 1973 wo wari ukomeye.

Wabonaga baza no mu mashuri bakirukana abana ndetse no mu giturage abantu bagahunga bajya mu Burundi, bajya muri Uganda no muri Congo, uwo mwaka rwose wari umwaka mubi.

Undi mwaka nibuka ni ukuva mu 1989, ni bwo nanone hongeye kuza ikintu cy’inkubiri yo kwirukana abana, yo gushyiramo abana inzangano, Imana nagize rero ni uko ari bwo banyimuye hano atari impamvu y’uko badashaka ko mpaba, ni uko nyine nari ngiye kwiga uwari unsimbuye yaramaze kuboneka, tumarana umwaka, yaje mu 1988, mu 1989 aransimbura, aho na ho rero habaye ibihe bibi abana babatozaga kwangana.

Mu iseminari na ho byari bihari?

Yego, byari bihari ariko twashoboye kujya tubihosha ahubwo mu 1990 nta gihari aho intambara itangiriye nanone byarakomeye, hari n’abana bafunze, hari n’abapfuye, birukanwe n’abandi bana n’abarimu ndetse hari abahaguye.

Bikozwe n’abarimu bigishaga mu Iseminari?

Bikozwe n’ubuyobozi bwa Perefegitura, bwa komini, ariko rero bikinjira no mu bana ugasanga baratoteza abandi, rimwe na rimwe bakitwaza ibintu by’ibisongo bashaka gutera bagenzi babo, icyo gihe bamwe bagiye bahunga bagataha, abahagumye ni bo bamwe nyine bahaguye, ariko by’ukuri babakuye hano bajya kubafungira i Byumba ni cya gihe cy’ibyitso, igihe bafatanga ibyitso ni bwo bamwe mu baseminari no mu barimu babatwaye.

Bajyanye abaseminari bangahe?

Bajyanye abaseminari bavuye hano banza bari bane ariko uwapfuye ni umwe. Uwo wapfuye yari yarajyanye n’abandi abajyana iwabo, yari atuye hafi hano, arabahungisha nyuma rero aho seminari ihagarikiye amasomo, Musenyeri yiyemeje gufunga seminari ho gato kubera izo mvururu icyo gihe, nyine abana batotezaga abandi, hari abahungiye kuri uwo museminari, nyuma rero baza kumufunga kuko ngo yabaye icyitso, aza gupfana n’ibindi byitso.

Hanyuma aho mu 1991 aho ugarukiye byagenze gute? Abavandimwe bawe bo bishwe ryari? Gute?

Mu 1991, aho ngarukiye mu Rwanda, mu by’ukuri nagize ikibazo cyo kugaruka kuko numvaga nyine hari intambara. Muri iyo ntambara, abavandimwe banjye barabatoteje, ndetse bamwe barabica mu 1990, ni bwo abavandimwe banjye bamwe babiciye hariya Gatsirima, ni muri Kiyombe, mu Murenge wa Kiyombe hari komini Kiyombe. Ni bwo babishe bavuga ngo ni ibyitso, bicwa n’abaturage.

Icyo gihe nari nkiri mu Bubiligi, namenye ko abavandimwe banjye babishe, ni uko njya mu kiriyo. Kugaruka rero byarangoye navugaga nti ‘ubu ndajya he ko nanjye wenda iyo bansanga mu rugo baba baranyishe n’abandi kandi barambwira bati urajya hehe ko ushobora kuzahura n’ikibazo?’

Mbajije Musenyeri rero niba naba ndetse kuza arambwira ati ‘ubu byarahoshe ubu bari mu mishyikirano yo kumvikana’.

Ampumurije rero ni bwo naje, hanyuma banyohereza rero i Rutongo ni ho 1994 yadusanze kandi muri iyo myaka ya 1991, 1992, 1993 kugera mu 1994 n’ubundi ibibazo byari biriho no mu bana twigishaga, wasangaga nyine bamwe bafite ibyo bitekerezo by’inzangano, tukabihosha kuko hari no mu iseminari baratwumviraga. Ndibuka ko hari igihe twahagaritse amasomo dutangira imishyikirano hamwe n’abana twari muri ubwo buzima butari butworoheye, ibintu by’uburezi ntibyari bitworohere kubera ayo moko.

Iyo mishyikirano n’abana yari iyihe?

Kwari ukubereka ko umubano ari wo mwiza, inzangano atari zo. Bamwe bakavuga bati Abatutsi ni bo bari mu ntambara, ni bo barwanya Abahutu. Ni iyo mishyikirano twagiraga yo kubwira abana ko atari byo, ko bidakwiye abakristu, abaseminari, bakwiye kubireka.

Abavandimwe bawe bishwe icyo gihe mu 1990, bitwa ibyitso, bari bangahe?

Hari murumuna wanjye na mukuru wanjye n’abagore babo. Abana bo bari mu mashuri i Kigali ndetse hari n’abari muri Congo twari twaroherejeyo kuko kubona amashuri mu Rwanda ntabwo byari byoroshye. Umugore wa murumuna wanjye we yapfuye mu 1989 yishwe n’indwara.

Ni murumuna wanjye, mukuru wanjye n’umugore we ni bo baguye hariya.

Icyo gihe aho mwari muri byagenze gute?

Icyo gihe mu 1994 nyuma ya Pasika, n ibwo indege ya Habyarimana yaguye, ayigwamo hanyuma rero ubuyobozi bwavuze buti mwese mugume aho muri ntihagire aho mujya, umutekano wanyu turawurindira aho muri. Kuva icyo gihe rero tariki ya 6, 7, 8 ndetse n’iya 9, twari twihishe aho ngaho mu iseminari ndetse twakira n’impunzi ziva mu mirenge idukikije.

Twatangiye kwakira abantu bari bakomeretse, abandi bahunze kugera ku itariki 9 Mata, twari twihishe turwana ndetse n’Interahamwe zari ziri kudutera, twari twashyize bariyeri mu nzira zigana ku kiliziya n’izigana mu iseminari, tubatera amabuye. Tariki 9 rero ni bwo Inkotanyi zajyaga i Kigali zivuye i Byumba zanyuze i Rutongo, ni zo zaturokoye, naho ubundi iyo zitaza tuba twarapfuye twese.

Inkotanyi zihageze rero zahuriranye n’Interahamwe zari ziri mu ma kamyo, na bisi zije kwica abari baduhungiyeho natwe turimo, ni uko barwana na bo barazirukana, tuba turarokotse, hanyuma nyuma yaho kuri 18 Mata ni bwo twahungiye i Byumba tuva Rutongo kuko hari imirwano.

Njye kuko nari Econome, kandi twari dufite amatungo, twari dufite ibikoresho by’abaseminari bari baragiye mu biruhuko, njye nagumye i Rutongo abandi baragenda, ngira ngo hari Inkotanyi zajyaga zihanyura zijya i Kigali, ndetse hari n’itsinda ry’abasirikare ryagiraga ngo ritume aho hantu hatekana kuko ni ho banyuraga rimwe na rimwe bakahacumbika kuko bajyaga i Kigali, nkagira ngo ahari harakomeza hagire umutekano, ariko nanjye kuri 28 Mata barambwira ngo ningende kuko hagwaga ibibombe byavaga i Murambi, Shyorongi barambwira bati ‘ni byiza ko nawe ugenda’. Twahungiye rero i Byumba tugaruka nyuma i Kigali imaze gufatwa muri Nyakanga.

Ese aho i Rutongo mwari mbere y’uko Inkotanyi zihagera, nta Batutsi bari bahahungiye Interahamwe zishe cyangwa mwakomeje kwirwanaho?

Hirya no hino abatutsi bari bahari barabicaga, abagize Imana bakaza mu Iseminari no kuri Paruwasi.

Ku iseminari ntabo bahiciye?

Oya twatangiye kwirwanano, tukabatera amabuye, ntawe bahiciye mbere ya 1994 kuko muri icyo gihe bicaga twirwanyeho, aho Inkotanyi zihagereye na zo ziturwanaho. Abari barahungiye ku Kiliziya ntawapfuye.

Hanyuma Jenoside irarangiye, abantu bagomba kubana, ubumwe n’ubwiyunge, abakoze ibyaha basabe imbabazi, icyo kintu cyari cyoroshye?

Icyari cyoroshye se ni iki? Ko nyuma y’aho Kigali ifatiwe aho Inkotanyi zitangiye kujya guhagarika Jenoside aho bari barafashe, ntabwo byari byoroshye, mu by’ukuri intambara yarakomeje, kugeza mu 1997 intambara ntabwo yahoshe, kuko intambara y’Inkotanyi n’Interahamwe n’abasirikare ba Habyarimana yasimbuwe n’intambara y’abacengezi.

Ndashaka by’umwihariko kugaruka ku buzima wowe ku giti cyawe wanyuzemo muri ibyo bihe bigoye. Abakwiciye muri Jenoside waje kubaha imbabazi?

Aho ngarukiye mu Rwanda mu 1991, muri kariya gace k’iwacu mu Mutara, n’igice kinini cy’i Byumba, abaturage benshi bari barahunze, bahunga abasirikare b’Inkotanyi, ntabwo rero nashoboye kugera aho twari dutuye kubera nyine nta bantu bari bagihari bamwe bari barahunze, abandi barapfuye nyine.

Nashoboye kugera iwacu mu 1996, aho mbereye Umwepiskopi wa Byumba ni bwo nasubiye kuhareba, hari harabaye amashyamba, n’aho abavandimwe banjye bari bashyinguye ntabwo nari mpazi, nagombye gushakisha, nsanga barabashyize mu musarani ariko bari barabaye amagufa gusa, ariko twagerageje kubashyingura, hanyuma mu 1996, ni bwo kujya i Byumba no kubana n’Abanya-Byumba ndi umwepiskopi wabo.

Icyo gihe rero abenshi bari bakiri mu buhungiro, hari abari barahungiye muri Tanzania, muri Congo no muri Uganda, abatari barahunze n’abagarutse, bari bake cyane na paruwasi nyinshi zari zifunze, ubanza twari dufite paruwasi enye na zo zirimo abantu bake.

Aho rero batangiye kugaruka, mu 1997 inkambi zo muri Benako no muri Congo barazishenye, abantu batangira guhunguka basubira iwabo.

Wabyitwayemo ute?

Nahuye n’ikibazo gikomeye, abantu bari barishe abavandimwe banjye baragaruka basubira mu byabo, ariko hagati aho abari barahunze mu 1959, mu 1994 batahukanye n’Inkotanyi, 1994, 1995, 1996 baratahukaga bagasanga aho bari batuye kera abantu barahahunze, nabo bakahatura.

Aho rero izo mpunzi zo mu 1994 zigarukiye biba ikibazo, kubana biba ikibazo ndetse abenshi bari bavuye i Benako muri Tanzania bashinga ingando hafi aho ngaho kuko batinyaga kujya guturana n’abantu bari barabasimbuye bavuye muri Uganda.

Ni bwo twahuye n’icyo kibazo nkiganira na burugumesitiri kugira ngo turebe uko abantu bakongera kubana. Kuko bamwe baravugaga bati Interahamwe ziratumara, zamenyereye kwica, abandi bati Inkotanyi ziratumara zihorere, ni zo ziri ku butegetsi.

Ni bwo rero kugira ngo icyo kibazo tugikemure twagombye kubahuza, guhuza izo mpunzi za kera zatahutse n’izo mpunzi zo mu 1994 na zo zari zitahutse.

Mwabanishije mute? Aho ni ho gahunda yo kububakira yakorewe?

Twafashe urubyiruko, abana kuva ku myaka 15 kugeza kuri 30, twabanje urubyiruko ngira ngo rugeze ku 150, basubiye iwabo, tuzana abandi, dutangira kubigisha, dushyiramo abapadiri n’abarezi, abo rero ni bo badufashije no kubanisha ababyeyi babo, kuko ababyeyi babo aho bari bakiri mu nkambi noneho tubahuza n’abari batangiye kubaka mu masambu yabo, tubanza guhuza urubyiruko, bagakina, bagahabwa inyigisho hanyuma bakagira n’ibitaramo, tugatumira n’ababyeyi babo, batangira guhura, dutangira kubagira inama, tubabwira ko ari abahunze kera bari bagarutse mu byabo, ari n’abahunze vuba na bo bari bagarutse mu byabo, ko bakwiye kugabana, bagaturana.

Kubera ko inzu nyinshi zari zarasenyutse, tubashakira abafundi, amabati, tubashakira ibikoresho nyine by’ubwubatsi ariko na bo tubasaba kubakirana, turababwira tuti abatutira batongana batura ukubiri, aho kugira ngo mutongane ahubwo nimwongere mubane n’icyo gisubizo gihari.

Baradukundira noneho ubuyobozi bwa komini bubaha ibibanza, barabagabanya cyane ko bari batuye batatanye, noneho batangira kubatuza mu midugudu, noneho barubakirana, tubaha amabati, abafundi, turabubakira baraturana.

Abakwiciye bigeze bagusaba imbabazi?

Oya nta mbabazi bansabye ariko ahari ni uko babonaga ko nazibahaye, ntashaka kwihorera. Twongeye kubana nk’uko twabanaga kera, batanyishisha nanjye ntabishisha.

Ntabwo higeze habaho ko abantu bagize uruhare mu bwicanyi bahanwa?

Abo barafashwe, barafungwa.

Ubu barafunguwe?

Hari abagifunze hari n’abapfuye.

Nta bafunguwe ngo babe baraje kugusaba imbabazi?

Hari abafunguwe bariho bari mu masambu yabo, turabana.

Bigeze bagusaba imbabazi?

Nta muntu wigeze ansaba imbabazi, cyakora numva bavuga ko iyo ntambara yabashyize mu bintu bitari byiza. Abantu barabyicuza, ariko mu buryo bwo gusaba imbabazi nta muntu wigeze ansaba imbabazi, nta n’uwigeze aza kumbwira ko abanyiciye abo bavuze banyiciye, nyine ubwo babaciriye imanza ariko ntitwongeye kubonana.

Muri ba bandi mwubakiye ubwo harimo n’ababiciye?

Wenda barimo, ariko sinahisemo, babahaye amasambu bose barubaka ntabwo nashakishije ngo menye ngo ni nde wanyiciye, abo bambwiye baje muri icyo gitero nta nubwo ari benshi cyane, abatarajemo bagumye imuhira nubwo wenda ibyo kwica bagiye babikora n’ahandi ariko ntabwo nigeze nshakisha ni bande banyiciye, abo bambwiye babikoze baberetse n’ubuyobozi, barabafunga, bamwe barafungurwa.

Ababyemeye bakabisabira imbabazi barabafunguye, abandi na bo barabafunze bagwa mu buroko, abandi baracitse bajya muri Uganda, ntabwo nzi ni nde na nde, kandi sinashatse kubamenya.

Ahubwo abo bantu basigaye kandi twubakiye, icyo gikorwa baracyishimiye ku buryo nyine n’uko kuntinyuka bakansura, tukabana, byatumye ubwabo, igihe leta yashakaga abakoze ibikorwa by’intangarugero, batanze ubuhamya ko ntigeze nshaka kwihorera, hanyuma bigera mu rwego rw’igihugu numva bantumyeho bambwira ko banshyize mu barinzi b’igihango.

Byaturutse kuri abo ngabo nyine twari duturanye, ari abagiye mu gitero cyo kwica abavandimwe ari n’abataratabaye, igikorwa cyo kububakira, cyo kutihorera cyabakoze ahantu, barabishima nubwo batambwiye ngo turasaba imbabazi ariko ntabwo bigeze banyishisha cyane, babonaga ko nabababariye, bicuza ibyabaye kandi baranabinyereka.

Usibye kuba wariyeguriye Imana ukora umurimo w’Imana, wigisha urukundo n’imbabazi. Ntabwo byari bikwiriye ko umuntu nk’uwo wakoze icyaha nk’icyo gikomeye cya Jenoside, cyo kwica, yaceceka gutyo avuga ati ‘ndabizi barambabariye’ ariko ntatere intambwe yo kujya gusaba imbabazi.

Njye nabibonye ko twaborohereje bakumva ko nyine imbabazi twazibahaye, ni ko nabibonaga cyakora bavugaga ko icyo gikorwa cyo kwica Abatutsi kibababaza na bo, kibatera n’isoni ariko na bwo ukabona hari n’abandi bagifitemo akantu, bakaguhunga, ariko nyine hagize ikindi kiboshya, kongera kwica ukabona ko bakongera.

Na n’ubu ibyo bintu uracyabibona?

Yego hari abacyibifite kuko n’aho ngaho twashyize urwibutso nigeze gushyiraho ifoto y’abapfuye, barayimena, barambwira ngo ni abasazi, ni ukuvuga ko bamwe bakifitemo ikintu cy’urwango, baramutse baborohereje, bakabona uburyo bakongera.

Dukore iki kugira ngo urwango rurangire burundu?

Icyo dukora ni ukoroha, tukoroherana, tukabereka ko urukundo rukiriho; urw’Imana yaturemanye nubwo kurukoresha ari intambara turwana, ko inabi iba mu bantu kandi ntawe isiga, muri twe, iyo ntambara ni ugukomeza kuyirwana, tukayitsinda.

Nonese ntureba muri Congo abahungiyeyo ntibakomeza kwica abantu kandi ubuyobozi bukabibemerera, ni ukuba maso, ni ukubirwanya ariko tuzi ko inabi iba mu bantu, hari abo iganza bakabigaragaza, ni na cyo gituma hari uburoko abo iganza bakitura abandi inabi barabafunga.

Iyo muganiriza abana hano ku iseminari, bo mubona ari iki kiri mu ntekerezo zabo?

Abana hano mu iseminari babanye neza cyane rwose nubwo hari abava mu miryango igifite ingengabitekerezo y’inzangano, hano ntabwo bigaragara, abenshi ntibazi n’ibyo bintu byo mu gihe cya 1959 na 1994, abenshi bavutse nyuma ya 2000.

Uretse ko nyine gukora ikibi, nyine abantu kibatsinda ariko rero ni uko kurwanya inabi, abana iyo babana hari igihe barwana, ariko abarwana si ukuvuga ko baba ari Abatutsi abandi ari Abahutu. Abatutsi ubwabo bashobora kurwana, n’Abahutu bashobora kurwana.

Ntabwo ari ibi by’amoko yabaye mu gihugu. Abana ubwabo barabirwanya, bitabuza ko iyo umuntu ashobora kurakaza undi, barakaranya cyangwa bakarwana, ibyo ni ibisanzwe mu bantu, cyane cyane mu iseminari ho tubigisha ko bagomba guharanira urukundo ndetse bazaba n’abapadiri bakabyigisha.